Interview with John Wiswell (SOMEONE YOU CAN BUILD A NEST IN)
John Wiswell is a disabled writer who lives where New York keeps all its trees. He won the 2021 Nebula Award for Short Fiction for his story, “Open House on Haunted Hill,” and the 2022 Locus Award for Best Novelette for “That Story Isn’t The Story.” He has also been a finalist for the Hugo Award, British Fantasy Award, and World Fantasy Award. His stories have appeared in Uncanny Magazine, The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, Diabolical Plots, Nature Futures, and other fine venues. Hi debut novel, SOMEONE YOU CAN BUILD A NEST IN, will be published by DAW Books in Spring 2024. He can be found making too many puns and discussing craft on his Substack, johnwiswell.substack.com.
Welcome to the Hive, John!
Thank you for having me! This is the nicest hive I’ve ever visited.
I’d like to start by saying that I absolutely adored this book. We don’t often get stories written from the points of view of the monsters. Why did you feel the urge to write this one?
So I’ve always related to villains and monstrous figures. Often these characters embody what our cultures say we shouldn’t be—and often our cultures are quite wrong. For my whole life I’ve dwelled on how hard it would be to exist as a monster in all those monster-slaying Fantasies. The ostracism, the loneliness, and the peril! You’re supposed to be the dangerous one, but every story is about slaying you. Shesheshen dragged me into this book by inviting sympathy for her plight, while also being so incredibly opinionated. Because of course she thinks monster hunters are overrated and treasure makes no sense to her.
You mention in your author’s note and your acknowledgements that some of this story stemmed from your own experience with disability and some of the reactions you have faced. Did that make writing this story a cathartic experience? How did this affect your writing process?
Writing Shesheshen was deeply liberating because she takes joy in her monstrous body. Yes, she can’t grow working legs on her own, and needs prosthetics. So she’s proud of her ingenuity in finding new bones to build her body, and of her wigs and costumes. Growing up in America, I learned to be ashamed of my disabilities, and to hide them for my own safety. That’s harmful messaging, and this monster helped me push back.
Rather than negging herself or cursing her disabilities, Shesheshen is proud of her survival and how she can trick able-bodied hunters into leaving her alone (or into becoming dinner). When you look at “malformed” creatures, blind monsters, monsters with pronounced limps, and skin conditions, and clear mental instability? Monsters often represent a culture’s fears of disability, and show the extent of stigmas around them. Here we have a monster who laughs at those fears and looks down on those who would typically look down on her.
You’ve written some truly lovable monsters and hateable villains in Someone You Can Build A Nest In – which would you say is more satisfying to write?
Oh, the monsters were my favorite here! I love villains, and certainly got into some despicable things with the Baroness and Epigram and Catharsis. But the best part of the book—and the part that made me write it in the first place—was exploring what Shesheshen and Homily meant to each other. They’re so different, and the secrets mean they keep this gap between each other. Yet even across that gap, their connection is fun and adorable, and it brings these truths bubbling up out of both of them that they didn’t know lay there. Finding someone who loves things about you that you thought were unlovable is pretty unforgettable, isn’t it?
How long did it take to write this story? Was it something that sat with you for a while until you found the right shape for it, or did it come tumbling out?
I wrote the first draft between November of 2019 and May of 2020, adding and revising bits six days a way with few breaks longer than one day. I was so attached to Shesheshen’s voice, and her growing connection with Homily, and the mysteries of Homily’s and Shesheshen’s families that whatever chapter I was writing, the next part was usually bubbling up in my head. That was also the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, and writing about a horrible monster who never wanted to leave her house suddenly felt like an autobiography. (Laughs) As soon as I finished the first draft, I crashed and didn’t write for many months, because of how hard life became in that year. I remain grateful to Shesheshen and Homily for keeping me active in those first months. Really, they kept me company.
This story has been rightfully compared to a number of brilliant works by other authors. Were there any particular pieces of media that you drew inspiration from while writing this story?
In some ways this is a book I was working towards writing for my entire life, so literally everything I’ve read touched it in some way. (Laughs) But there were a couple of books that felt like they were giving me permission to write this, in their own ways. Martha Wells is a champion of non-human characters, but the deep relatability in the inhuman Murderbot in All Systems Red touched me in a new way. I’d already written many short stories from non-human points of view, but that one helped encourage me to explore it deeper, until I had the sympathy for the monstrous that you see in Someone You Can Build A Nest In.
And then there were the necromancers! I read Tamsyn Muir’s Gideon the Ninth during the interminable wait for jury selection, and the power of its voice kept me alive throughout that dry day. It left me wanting to push the voice in my own work further, to let a character absolutely go. A year or so later when I created Shesheshen, she went.
Sometimes you read great writers doing their own thing, and it becomes permission for you to get out of your own way. It’s one of the greatest gifts one writer can give another.
This book has two very different covers. How involved were you in the selection for these? Do you have a favourite? Were there particular elements that you fought to be included?
They’re so different, aren’t they? Both J.M. Fenner and Stephen Player did such wonderful work. I cherish them both, and they’ve polarized the people around me. I have a lot of Horror-loving friends who prefer the U.S. cover, whereas my mom wishes she lived in the U.K. one. I know some local librarians in the U.S. who also prefer the cozier tone.
What tickles me is that both covers are so apt. The U.S. cover perfectly embraces the shameless and monstrous joy of Shesheshen, where the U.K. cover embraces the warmth and gentle influence of Homily. The two covers are perfect for this odd couple.
I got lucky, too, that I didn’t have to fight anything about these covers. Fenner and Player are both so darned talented that they basically were nailing the ideas from the outset. I had conversations with my editors about incorporating bits of Shesheshen and Homily in each. I wanted both covers to have at least traces of both of them. And while I won’t spoil it for people who haven’t read the book yet, both covers have some great easter eggs!
Now the important question: If you had to pick a favourite monster in mythology or media, which would it be and why?
Oh no! Do I have to pick only one? But I want to bring them all home and make them tea, even the chicken-footed houses that wouldn’t fit in my home. This is the hardest conundrum of my life. Do I pick one of the classics, like dragons or the Lernaean Hydra? Or something cosmic like the Predators or Godzilla? I need a moment. (laughs) I’ll have to go with kaiju for their sheer variety and grandeur. I feel a profound emotional connection with giant engines of destruction like Gigan and Biollante. Is that weird?
Finally, congratulations on writing such a brilliant book! Are we likely to hear any more from Shesheshen and Homily? Is there another writing project on the horizon for you?
Well I am finishing the first draft of my next novel right now. Literally I have nine chapters left to write! So that’s pretty firmly wedged in my horizon. I can’t speak publicly about what it’s about yet, except to say this: Someone You Can Build A Nest In is a book about how bodies carry our character and what they express to others, and my next book is about how voices carry our character and what we don’t realize they express to others. This next book is not a direct sequel by any means, but is a thematic companion.
Now, could you see more about Shesheshen and Homily someday? Never say never. I have several ideas percolating for them. But for right now, I think anybody who has read their adventure will agree that they’ve earned a brief rest. (Laughs)
Thanks for joining us today!
It was such a pleasure! Thank you for showing me around your hive.
Someone You Can Build a Nest In is out today! You can order your copy HERE