Interview with Rogba Payne (THE DANCE OF SHADOWS)
Born in London and the first of three, Rogba was raised across both London and Lagos, Nigeria. He is a descendant of John Augustus Otunba-Payne; the noted lawyer, writer and murdered prince of the Ijebu-Ode royal family. Rogba first began writing while studying law at university – where the shapes of the characters in his debut, ‘The Dance of Shadows’, first took form. He is particularly interested in the deep-rooted beliefs, myths and stories that underpin culture and the beautiful lies that often inspire them. Now a lawyer, living in Lagos, he is most alive writing speculative fiction that examines issues of power, prejudice and spirituality. Rogba studied law in England before returning to Nigeria, where he found employment at a corporate law firm. There he worked his way up to a Senior Counsel before leaving to start his own practice with three like-minded peers. At the same time, Rogba actively pursued a literary career.
Welcome to the Hive, Rogba! Let’s start with the basics: tell us about The Dance of Shadows – why should readers check it out?
Fantasy has always been my safe haven and I wrote this book for my kin. These days it sometimes feels as though everyone is ‘too-cool-for-school’ and no one wants to look too passionate about anything; we seem to cope with the heavy stuff by making light of everything. I hope that in The Dance of Shadows, I have built a world where readers can put that mask away. If you love magic, adventure and aren’t afraid to explore new, dynamic worlds with music and myths that will make you feel something – then The Dance of Shadows is for you. For anyone who has a soft spot for characters that go for things, step out of line, make mistakes while putting everything on the line – I think you would enjoy this book.
Tell us more about your protagonist Rumi, what inspired his personality?
His name is Rumi (short for Irumide). Rumi is a talented drummer with dreams of playing on the biggest stage but one deadly night changes everything – when a godhunter called the Priest of Vultures attacks, Rumi loses all he holds dear. Dominated by fear, depression and shame, Rumi has to face up to a daunting destiny to become a Shadowwielder – people able to create weapons from their shadows.
His personality has a number of inspirations. There is a teensy bit of me in there but there are others too – my brother for one, along with some of my favourite figures from fantasy, sport and film. I sometimes think of him like an African Terry McGinnis from Batman of the Future.
What other characters can we expect to meet? Did you have a favourite side character to write?
You’ll meet Rumi’s family, his friends, witch doctors, gods, godhunters and a whole bunch of other figures inspired by culture, myth and spirituality. I have two favourite side characters to write – one of them is a slave-turned-pirate and recovering alcoholic who lives by one unbreakable rule; another is a jaded but gifted warrior who keeps her secrets close to her chest and has a walk-in closet full of skeletons.
“A walk-in closet full of skeletons” – love this! Paints quite the picture!
The Dance of Shadows is described as being inspired by West African spirituality, can you tell us more?
Absolutely! West Africa has a deep and rich tapestry of religion, myth and culture that has found its way around the world despite being bashed around the head by colonialism. Even within Africa, West African spirituality is taboo and I think that is wrong (and suspicious). Some of the greatest stories I ever heard, were told to me by old, hard-faced women who heard them from their own mothers and grandmothers. Stories about magic and warriors and the gods of their ancestors. I believe these incredible stories need to be heard, understood and loved; so I wove them into my fantasy.
Your novel has also been described as perfect for fans of Joe Abercrombie, S. A. Chakroborty, and Marlon James, but who are your most significant fantasy or sci-fi influences?
This is a difficult question to answer because I am inspired by so many, but the storytellers that have resonated the most with me are probably Robert Jordan, Michael Moorcock, Octavia Butler and Joe Abercrombie. But of course, being Yoruba, there were Yoruba storytellers that hit me hard as well – I read Amos Tutuola’s ‘My Life in the Bush of Ghosts’ and it transported me. Some of the names and places in The Dance of Shadows are easter eggs to those familiar with Tutuola’s work.
We see such varying opinions from authors when it comes to the time of editing their books. How have you found the editing process? Enjoyable, stressful or satisfying?
The editing process has been equally enjoyable and stressful. My first draft was close to 170,000 words and I knew I had to get it much closer to the 100,000-word mark. Taking that slab of granite and trying to chisel it down to something powerful was challenging at times. I had to kill characters and cut storylines I loved, I had to hold fire on so many scenes I had dreamed of bringing to life. In the end, I think it was all for the best and I love how it all turned out. Now I get to resurrect some of my darlings in the second book (and hope I don’t have to kill them all over again).
Did you have a favourite scene to write in your book? Were there any scenes you found tricky?
My favourite scene to write was also the most difficult one – it’s the scene where Rumi and the Priest of Vultures have their first confrontation. I had to write and re-write it so many times before it finally felt right. It was my favourite because it is such a transformative part of the story; but it was also tricky because there were so many magical and fantastical elements that I really wanted to feel visceral and real. I wanted the scene to have that effect that I find so magical (no pun intended) about fantasy; how it can make faraway imaginary worlds feel realer and more truthful than anything we speak aloud in real life.
We always appreciate a beautiful book cover! How involved in the process were you? Was there a particular aesthetic you hoped the artist would portray?
I love the book cover and I am so grateful to the cover artist Mayowa Alabi (@shutabug), Gollancz and everyone involved for how it came out. When I saw the first draft of the cover, I loved it, but the team at Gollancz and I both had a few ideas about how it could slightly change. Luckily, the cover artist and I were both in Lagos, Nigeria and were able to meet for lunch to talk things through. Just one lunch and the next day Mayowa sent over the revised cover and it was perfect. It portrays that aesthetic of darkness in the midst of vibrancy which really reflects the African experience.
The world shifts, and you find yourself with an extra day on your hands during which you’re not allowed to write. How do you choose to spend the day?
Reading! I have so many books I have been meaning to catch up on both in Sci-fi/Fantasy and other genres. But if that is too obvious an answer, I provide another herewith: spending a day at the beach under a blazing hot sun; that is always an excellent way to spend an extra day.
One of our favourite questions here on the Fantasy Hive: which fantastical creature would you ride into battle and why?
A voice in my head is shouting ‘Dragon’ but that voice is always doing that. A more personal answer would probably be a creature from East-African myth called a kongamoto. Known as ‘the breaker of boats’, kongamoto are like dragons; huge, fire-breathing lizards with bird-like beaks that are known to attack ships and boats. It would terrify my enemies to see me ride into battle on one of those. Hint: A kongamoto or two may appear (and fight) in The Dance of Shadows.
Can you recommend to our readers some West African inspired fantasy books you love. Any hidden gems?
The aforementioned Amos Tutuola’s My Life in the Bush of Ghosts is a favourite; it is told with a narration style that is very different to what most fantasy readers are used to – it’s almost like you’re literally being told a folk tale. This might throw you off at first but there’s good stuff in there. Another is by a book called The Brave Hunter in the Forest of 400 Deities by a man called Daniel Fagunwa; it’s written originally in Yoruba but I read a version translated by the Nobel laureate Wole Soyinka and loved it.
Can you tell us a little something about your current work(s) in progress? Will there be a sequel to, The Dance of Shadows?
Yes, there will be a sequel to The Dance of Shadows – I am nearly done with writing it and that has been a beautiful ride. I am also working on a sci-fi heist/prison break story which I am calling The Emperor Gene. It is set in a dystopian near-future where prescription drugs have caused mutations that have given most of the population special powers and the rest are normies who are part of an underclass dominated by activist drug dealers. It’s my X-Men meets The Wire.
Are you planning anything fun to celebrate your release?
Nothing formal planned yet but my friends and family are super excited so I am sure there will be some eating and drinking somewhere. To be honest, I am still just a little blown away that I get to have the privilege of going into bookshops and seeing my name beside some of the people I spent hours reading and loving.
Finally, what is the one thing you hope readers take away from your writing?
There is a line in the book that says ‘When the music plays, it is better to dance than to stand still.’ I hope everyone who reads the book sees some merit in that philosophy. Not to literally to dance (because…no) but to figuratively dance: to enjoy things, to lean into your passions and to not be afraid to look a little goofy because that freedom – when you feel it – is a bridge to something innate and essential in all of us.
Thank you so much for joining us today!
Thanks for having me!
The Dance of Shadows is out today! You can order your copy HERE