Interview with Julie Leong and Sangu Mandanna – WOMEN IN SFF
Julie Leong is a Malaysian Chinese American author and startup exec. She graduated from Yale and lives in San Francisco with her husband and rescue pup. Her debut novel, The Teller of Small Fortunes, will be published in 2024 by Ace/Berkley (US), Hodderscape (UK), and Heyne (Germany).
The Teller of Small Fortunes is due for release 5th November 2024. You can pre-order your copy HERE
Sangu Mandanna was four years old when an elephant chased her down a forest road and she decided to write her first story about it. Seventeen years and many, many manuscripts later, she signed her first book deal. Sangu now lives in Norwich, a city in the east of England, with her husband and kids.
A Witch’s Guide to Magical Innkeeping is due for release 6th March 2025. You can pre-order your copy HERE
Or you can pick up a copy of The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches HERE
Welcome to the Fantasy Hive Julie and Sangu, and our Women in SFF feature! We’re thrilled you could both join us for an interview about cosy fantasy.
To begin with, can you briefly describe your story in three sentences or less?
J: The Teller of Small Fortunes is about Tao, a young immigrant fortune teller who travels from village to village in her wagon and tells ‘small fortunes’ for a living. She’s an outsider–not entirely by choice–but when she’s roped into an ex-mercenary’s search for his daughter, she discovers that there might be a place for her after all, although reuniting his family will require her to confront the past that she’s been running away from. It’s a warm, cosy adventure full of found family, but with a dash of bittersweet diaspora feels as well.
S: The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches is a warm, cosy, romantic fantasy about a lonely witch who is unexpectedly invited to become a magical tutor to three young witches and, in the process, finds the family she never had. Think Mary Poppins meets Practical Magic! As for A Witch’s Guide to Magical Innkeeping, it’s an equally (I hope) warm and cosy fantasy about a grumpy innkeeper who has lost her magic and tries to get it back, all while contending with the colourful inhabitants of the inn, a semi-villainous talking fox, and an icy (but gorgeous) historian.
Can you tell us a bit about your main character? What kind of personality do they possess?
J: Tao is someone who is very accustomed to being alone–and so, out of necessity, she’s also quite independent and capable. She watches and listens more than she speaks, and therefore is perceptive to how the world works and to how people work. But she’s had a difficult upbringing–a result of the events that uprooted her childhood and brought her to this new and unwelcoming kingdom–and to protect herself, has built up emotional walls that keep others at a distance. Once the others get her to lower those walls, though, it turns out she’s just a soft squishy cinnamon bun on the inside!
S: This is a fun one because Mika and Sera, my two protagonists, are so different! Superficially, at least. Mika is sunny and Sera is cranky; Mika is alone and Sera often wishes she were alone (then maybe she’d get some peace!); Mika longs for the companionship of other witches while Sera’s experience with other witches hasn’t been particularly positive. Deep down, though, I think they’re a lot more alike than they seem: they’re both lonely, in different ways, and they’re both profoundly warm, kind people who are fiercely protective of the things they love.
Did you create mood boards to help set the atmosphere of your story? If so, what did your mood board consist of?
J: I didn’t create a mood board, but I did have many influences in my head as I wrote it. I listened to the soundtracks from various Miyazaki films; I benefited from a particularly wet and rainy San Francisco winter (which helped with the cosy factor, if not my vitamin D levels); and I did a frankly alarming amount of baking throughout COVID–all of which I channelled into writing The Teller of Small Fortunes.
S: I did have mood boards! I spend way more time on Pinterest than I should, for everything from home decor to book vibes, so it was inevitable. Some common threads in both books’ mood boards were gorgeous pictures of the English countryside, lots of old libraries, cosy blankets and tea, and the occasional suitably atmospheric photograph of an actor I thought was a good physical fit for a character!
Just for fun, how would you pitch your book as a 1-star review?
J: “This fantasy novel is so unrealistic! Too many feelings; not enough violence. And what’s with the lesbian nuns?”
S: I don’t think I can top “and what’s with the lesbian nuns?” but maybe something like “Not enough plot, not enough white people, and why are they always drinking tea?!”
I don’t think anyone ever on this site ever again will top “what’s with the lesbian nuns”. Unless someone reviews Lauren Groff’s Matrix
The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches, A Witch’s Guide to Magical Innkeeping, and The Teller of Small Fortunes have all been described as “cosy” fantasy: can you tell us what defines the cosy fantasy genre for you?
J: I think cosy is a deeply subjective term based on how a book makes you feel. For me, it means a character-driven story with low stakes, some humour, and a happy ending that is comforting or life-affirming in some way. It’s a book that I can read knowing that nothing terribly upsetting is going to happen, and that provides escapism from the sort of cynicism that pervades our day-to-day lives.
I think there ultimately needs to be a sense of optimism and kindness underlying a cosy fantasy–where even if everything is going wrong and the world is throwing obstacles in your path, you have reason to believe it’ll all work out in the end, because people are good and decent and generally want to do the right thing. (Also: hot beverages are a must!)
S: I think Julie nailed it, really. I heartily echo mandatory hot beverages! And for me personally, I feel like a fantasy isn’t cosy if it doesn’t make me come away with a snuggly, comforting sense that maybe, just maybe, there’s hope for this world after all.
What draws you to cosy fantasy? Did you start your story with this aim in mind, or did the label come after?
J: For me, it was very much a case of writing what I wanted to read. 2022 was a difficult year for me–not only was the world hunkered down for COVID, but we learned that my father’s cancer had recurred, and the prognosis was not good. It was at that point that I quit my job and began spending a lot of time at the hospital with him. I turned to books for comfort, and discovered this (at the time) new subgenre of ‘cosy fantasy’; I binge-read everything I could find with cosy vibes, including Sangu’s wonderful The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches, and very shortly ran out of cosy fantasy books to read! That was when I decided to try writing my own, and The Teller of Small Fortunes is the result.
S: Thank you, Julie! I think I’m in much the same boat. When I started writing The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches, we weren’t yet using the term ‘cosy fantasy’ as a subgenre and I was just writing what I hoped would be a soft, comforting book that would get me through the COVID hellscape of 2020. In hindsight, I was absolutely inspired by some of my favourite books, all of which we would now retrospectively call cosy fantasy, like Howl’s Moving Castle.
Do you think there are particular tropes to cosy fantasy, and if so, tell us about your favourites?
J: Ooh. I’m not sure if this counts as a trope or not, but I love the attention given to food in cosy fantasy. The scented steam rising from a mug of tea, the way a warm scone crumbles in your mouth–these aren’t details that are necessarily relevant to the plot, but in cosy fantasy, you can slow down and linger over these small moments of joy and comfort.
The other big trope that I love is found family; I think it speaks to something deep within all of us that just wants to belong–to find others who make us feel safe and loved for who we are, flaws and all.
S: Yes to food and found family! I don’t think either of these things is essential in a cosy fantasy, but I do think we’re seeing them come up so often that they’ve definitely become tropes of the genre (and rightly so, too, because they’re the best!) I also think we’re seeing quite a lot of the trope of the character who is thrust headfirst into the shenanigans of a chaotic, quirky cast, which in cosy fantasy is usually a gentler, funnier version of the fish out of water trope we see in so many kinds of fiction.
Which three cosy fantasy reads would you recommend to our readers? Give us some hidden gems!
J: Only three is difficult! Well, first I’d recommend Miss Percy’s Pocket Guide to the Care and Feeding of British Dragons by Quenby Olson. It’s a delightful indie book in which a timid spinster inherits a dragon egg, which rather unexpectedly hatches into a dragon that she then has to raise and keep safe. There’s romance, tea, cake, and a cosy little village – but it’s ultimately a story of a woman and her dragon, and how she discovers her self-worth along the way.
Second: The Spell Shop by Sarah Beth Durst, which comes out on July 9. It’s a very sweet cottagecore fantasy featuring a socially awkward librarian, her sentient spider plant, and an island full of quirky villagers, childhood memories, and whimsical magic.
Finally, I would hardly call it a hidden gem as I think it’s (rightfully) highly lauded, but Becky Chambers’ A Psalm for the Wild-Built is such a beautiful, gentle, healing book, and I want to fling it bodily at everyone I know. It’s about…well, it’s about a lot of things, but I suppose it’s the story of a tea monk and a robot on a journey. It’s a book that makes you feel just a little better about everything–yourself, humanity, our future–by the time you’ve finished reading it.
And can I squeeze in a cheeky fourth recommendation? If so: anyone who hasn’t read Sangu’s The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches yet needs to do so immediately!
S: The Teller of Small Fortunes! It’s not out yet so I think I can definitely call it a hidden gem and, goodness, what a gem it is! Julie has an incredible gift for making the words on the page feel truly sensory, especially with food, and it’s just such a lovely, delightful book.
Howl’s Moving Castle, of course, though that’s hardly a hidden gem (if you’ve only seen the Ghibli version, though, PLEASE read the book because it’s adorable and sooooo much cosier than the movie).
I also recently read and really enjoyed The Remarkable Retirement of Edna Fisher by E.M. Anderson, which is about a geriatric Chosen One (a geriatric! Chosen! One!), and Best Hex Ever by Nadia El-Fassi, which is about a kitchen witch (yes! More food!) and is perfect for anyone who wants more romance in their cosy fantasies.
Love that you both flagrantly disregarded the “three” bit
Who are the most significant women in SFF who have shaped and influenced your work?
J: As a writer, I feel like I’m just a cauldron bubbling away with dashes of all of the other authors I’ve ever read, and as they brew, I absorb all of the different styles and themes and structures and try to alchemize them into something my own. There are so, so many brilliant women in my cauldron who have paved the way for others in SFF, and inspired me in one way or another.
But if I had to name just a handful, they would be: Ursula K. Le Guin, for her sheer mastery of language and incisive empathy; Robin Hobb, for her incredible character work; Nghi Vo, for her gorgeous storytelling and lush, Asian-inspired worldbuilding; and Becky Chambers, for the deep, abiding kindness of her stories.
S: Oh my goodness, there are so many! There are a few obvious ones I won’t mention because, much as they may have inspired and influenced me when I was much younger, I’m not a fan anymore, but there’s also Diana Wynne Jones (of course! Her humour and imagination continue to astound me), Holly Black (I think the very first YA fantasy I ever read was Tithe, and it really broke down some of the mental barriers I had about what kinds of books I could write), Natasha Ngan (a dear friend and also a phenomenal writer who inspires me all the time), Robin McKinley (Beauty remains one of my favourite fairytale retellings of all time), Tasha Suri (her queer, Indian-inspired fantasies are just lush, gorgeous and perfect), and so many more.
If you could visit any fictional coffee shop or restaurant or tavern (etc!), where would you visit and why?
J: Hands down, The Mended Drum in Ankh-Morpork from the Discworld novels! I’d love to just sit there nursing a sticky mug of stale beer (or perhaps chamomile tea–I actually don’t enjoy beer, only the aesthetics of it) while friendly brawls and drunken wizardry erupt all around me. I’d be a tourist like Twoflower, clicking merrily away with my iconograph as I dodge flying stools.
S: This is such a random choice, but the chocolate shop in Chocolat. I mean, yes, it’s chocolate and that’s automatically a winner, but I also have such nostalgic memories of watching the movie and getting swept up in the gorgeous, sensory scenes of chocolate-making and the story of a cold, hostile town warming to Juliette Binoche’s character’s relentless kindness and warmth (retrospectively, we’d call Chocolat a cosy fantasy too, wouldn’t we?)
If you were to have your story adapted, what medium would you choose—anime, Netflix series or feature length film? Who would you cast for your main character?
J: A Netflix series! I love getting invested in a good show, and feel like the episodic nature often allows for deeper relationship-building between characters with more room to breathe. I think Jess Hong would make a fantastic Tao; I really loved her as Jin Cheng in Netflix’s recent adaptation of The Three-Body Problem.
S: Oh yes, a Netflix series! Something people could binge-watch six or eight episodes of in one evening! Like Julie said, I love the way a longer form like that lends itself to character and world. And I think Anya Chalotra would be a brilliant Mika. She’s so talented and versatile!
Finally, what is the one thing you hope readers take away from your writing?
J: I hope The Teller of Small Fortunes brings readers at least an ounce of the joy and comfort that I got from writing it.
S: I hope readers come away from both The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches and A Witch’s Guide to Magical Innkeeping with comfort, hope and, above all, a certainty that no matter who they are, they’re welcomed.
Thank you so much for joining us for Women in SFF!
J: Thank you so much for having us! It’s been a pleasure–
S: Thank you for having us! This has been so fun.
The Teller of Small Fortunes is due for release 5th November 2024. You can pre-order your copy HERE
A Witch’s Guide to Magical Innkeeping is due for release 6th March 2025. You can pre-order your copy HERE or you can pick up a copy of The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches HERE